The musings of one Andrew Langer - defender of liberty, passionate protector of individual rights, foodie. (Note: Said Musings of Andrew Langer are his own, and the views represented herein are likewise his views, and not the views of any other people, entities, foodstuffs, etc [unless otherwise specifically and explicitly noted].)

Tuesday, July 19, 2005

Another Big Announcement!!!

Humantics Foundation.... SUSPENDED!!!!!

So, I wasn't going to really say anything at all... but now that Ilena Rosenthal has decided to continue to talk about me on Usenet, I figure there's no reason to be silent.

You might recall that when I started this Blog, I mentioned that I'd been a frequent writer on Usenet, but that I'd slowed that down considerably in recent years. In no small measure that was due to the rapid decrease in civil discourse - why try discussing things, in my opinion, if nobody is going to talk about them in a rational and constructive manner.

One of the worst offenders in this regard is Ilena Rosenthal. Ms. Rosenthal is the titular head of an organization called "The Humantics Foundation for Women", a group which purports to advocate on behalf of women who believe themselves to have been injured or caused to fall ill by their breast implants. But for as long as I have known her, Ms. Rosenthal has used her time, and her organization's time and resources, to engage in extensive (and intensely negative and vicious) attack campaigns aimed at those she perceives to be her personal enemies. In terms of actual advocacy (and results), the efforts of Ms. Rosenthal and her so-called "foundation" have little to show for all of the time she has supposedly spent on this issue. Her website contains precious little beyond her attack pages, of which there is one directed at me.

There's an old adage that there's no point in wrestling with a pig. The pig likes it, and you get nothing out of it except covered in pig filth. With that adage in mind, I have at times spent months where I did not engage Ms. Rosenthal on Usenet at all. The idea was that perhaps if I ignored her, she might go away - or, at least, simply stop in her campaign of lies about me. In fact, she'd offered as much - a statement which I proved false time and time again (each time I'd go months ignoring her, she'd just continue her barrage of insults and lies and half-truths). Allies of hers made similar claims, but these too fell far short of the truth.

Case in point: I haven't posted anything to since May 15, 2005 (I posted a few messages to sci.environment, but that was in response to some forged messages someone had posted in my name). But despite that, Ms. Rosenthal continued to post messages regarding me - claiming that I have been "stalking" her or "libeling" her.

I nevertheless continued to remain silent, and probably would have let the most recent news about the Humantics Foundation simply pass without comment... except that in her attempts to divert attention away from the very real news about the Humantics Foundation (the organization she "runs"), she tried to deflect a very direct statement regarding the status of that organization by throwing my name into the mix (this time by calling me a "'sound science' shill", whatever that means).

Now, for years I have been asking Ms. Rosenthal about some specific operations decisions regarding her organization. Her organization operates (or was operating) as a non-profit 501c(3) corporation in California, and because of her federal non-profit status, I have a right to ask her questions regarding her organization (and, what's more, she has an obligation to answer them). Specifically, I asked her about irregularities on her organization's filings with the US Internal Revenue Service, the Humantics Foundation's IRS Form 990s (available at Certain entries hadn't been made, and numbers from one year's form that were supposed to correspond with numbers on other year's forms didn't - so I wanted a bit of clarification.

Ms. Rosenthal never answered those questions, and instead repeatedly e-mailed my wife. These e-mails, filled with vicious and scary rhetoric, making false accusations and trying to raise an impression that somehow my behavior was at fault, were designed to elicit a response in my wife. Ms. Rosenthal's goal? To so unnerve my wife that she would put a stop to my inquiries.

In fact, she said as much when she asked my wife to exercise some measure of control over me.

In other words, Ms. Rosenthal was using scare tactics to try to bully me into silence.

Now, I'm not the only one Ms. Rosenthal has done this to. There are webpages dedicated to others as well, and others who have been tormented online by Ms. Rosenthal's behavior. And I know a good many people who have complained regarding her (lawsuits have been filed, in fact). Ms. Rosenthal was, until fairly recently, running her organization from outside of the United States (Costa Rica and somewhere in South America, from what I gather), in fact. How she is supposed to impact US policy on breast implants from a stronghold in Central America is beyond me. The whole thing smacks of "The House on Garibaldi Street", if you ask me (I'll let you all figure out that reference).

Well, somebody's complaints worked. On July 1, 2005, the State of California suspended the corporate charter of the Humantics Foundation for Women.

Of course, Ms. Rosenthal has said nothing for these past (nearly) three weeks. Until someone else brought it up today - and now there is this near-panicked defense. Her response?

To change the title of the post announcing their suspension, and merely mentioning their "recent change in legal status" as though it were some normal, everyday thing. No explanation. No "we're working on getting our status reinstated".

No mention of it on the Humantics Foundation website, either. But they _ARE_ still soliciting donations.


So, for those of you who have googled me and e-mailed me asking, "Who is this Ilena Rosenthal woman, and why does she seethe with hate for you so much?" I have a simple answer:

"Ilena Rosenthal is the titular head of an organization that because of its management practices
has had its corporate license suspended by the state of California. Ms. Rosenthal currently
resides outside of the United States."

There's more - but for the sake of time and space I will leave it at that for now.


Blogger Ilena Rose said...

What is a "sound science" shill?

July 19, 2005 6:15 PM

Blogger T.H.E.Probe said...

I wonder what her web host, GoDaddy, would say if they knew they were being exposed to possible legal measures.

July 19, 2005 6:31 PM

Blogger T.H.E.Probe said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

July 19, 2005 6:31 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

July 19, 2005 6:46 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Andy uses to further the 'talking points' of the Bush administration ... he was so absurdly arrogant to claim that the millions and millions of us against the invasion of Iraq to further the Corporate Agenda was "indefensible."

Now years into this disaster, with scores of thousand of innocents dead and lives destroyed because of the War Andy Langer cheer leads for ... the lies told by the administration and parroted by Andy and Coleah Penley Ayers are front page news.

"The voice of protest, of warning, of appeal is never more needed than when the clamor of fife and drum, echoed by the press and too often by the pulpit, is bidding all men fall in and keep step and obey in silence the tyrannous word of command. Then, more than ever, it is the duty of the good citizen not to be silent.": Charles Eliot Norton - (1827-1908) American scholar

July 19, 2005 7:09 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ilena Rosenthal Lord(?)flaunts the suspended status of her organization and continues to request funds through PayPal. She shows no concern about those she hurts along the way.

For those who contribute to her fund, they may be contributing to pay for the legal bills she incurred while suing Dr. Patrick O'Leary, formerly of McGhan.

July 19, 2005 8:52 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

I see Andy's Ilena Basher buddies are ashamed of who they are and hide like the Moles they are behind fake names ... typical shill tactics. They've done it for years ... 10 of them in fact.

As far as O'leary ... of all the "causes" in the Breast Implant Debacle ... it's Andy's buddies Schaezler and Penley Ayers and Myrl Jeffcoat who find this one so important ...

Penley Ayers even LIED in her attempts to get into my bank accounts ... while she was paying to stalk me and my friends ... feeding information to Langer's Team:

For the years that preceded my case against O'leary ... then President of Inamed/McGhan ... please visit: ...

There are unknown scores of women with ruptured implants and no way to remove them ...

I offered O'leary to put the money to an explant surgery that I would have to pay his judgement ... of course he refused.

He has made hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of silicone $$$$$$$$$$$$ ... while I have worked for years for no salary to continue to raise awareness as to the Corporate Lies around breast implants ... and point the finger at their shills like Langer and O'leary etc.

July 19, 2005 9:15 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

July 19, 2005 9:16 PM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

Why was your corporate charter suspended, Ms. Rosenthal?

July 19, 2005 10:30 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

I don't know Andyboy ... I just found out today.

I do know that you and your buddies harassed the FDA and other government agencies about me ... including some that had nothing to do with my work whatsoever.

I do know that you and Coleah and others had a concerted effort to destroy the Humantics Foundation ... what bullies you are.

That's the Quackwatch/Junk Science protocal for attempting to silence non profit foundations who speak out against those who pay those who pay YOU!

So many of you ganging up to bully me ... typical.

I invite people to go to my homepage and read the article on "PR War Against Activists" ... it explains how you operate.

I don't need a corporate status to raise awareness to the dangers of breast implants ... and the concommitant dangers of lying flacks for industry/government like you.

July 20, 2005 1:11 AM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

Her charter's suspended nearly three weeks ago, and the Director of the Humantics Foundation for Women only found out on July 19?!!!

My, _THAT'S_ corporate responsiblity for you!

Perhaps if you were actually _IN_ the country, or you had an ACTUAL address for process of service (as is _REQUIRED_ by California state law, you would be more aware of the LAWFUL OPERATING STATUS of the organization you have a LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY for managing.

July 20, 2005 6:28 AM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

We all get to see what "corporate responsibillity" has done to Iraq and the reputation of the US and how it has created the worst terrorism the world has ever seen and made billions around the world hate the US!

YOU sit behind a desk and sell corporate/government aggression and destruction to the world ... I choose to travel the world raising awareness to the dangers of breast implants and the concommitant dangers of their front groups and shills like you!

July 20, 2005 9:04 AM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Here's what "corporate responsiblity" that Langer flacks for has created ... he must be so proud!

Death and Casualties in Iraq – Thank God Somebody Is Doing the Math
Let’s do a little mid-summer review:

1758 American troops dead in Iraq
93 UK troops dead in Iraq
101 ‘Other’ coalition troops dead in Iraq
1963 Coalition dead in Iraq (as of July 12th)

13438 Coalition wounded

25000 Iraqi civilian dead
42500 Iraqi civilian wounded

The UK based organization Iraqi Body Count has just released a 28-page dossier on Civilian Casualties in Iraq 2003- 2005, and it makes for chilling reading. Here are some highlights:

-37% of all non-combatant deaths were caused by US led coalition forces.
-9% deaths were caused by insurgents
-10% deaths were children
-30% civilian deaths occurred during the ‘invasion phase’, post invasion civilian deaths were twice as high in year two as year one.
-43% deaths occurred in Baghdad
-Most adults killed left orphaned children
-in Tikrit one in every 90 people has been killed.

Professor John Sloboda, one of the authors of the report, said:

“The ever-mounting Iraqi death toll is the forgotten cost of the decision to go to war in Iraq. On average, 34 ordinary Iraqis have met violent deaths every day since the invasion of March 2003. Our research shows that no sector of Iraqi society has escaped….it remains a matter of gravest concern that, nearly two and a half years on, neither the US nor the UK governments have begun to systematically measure the impact of their actions in terms of human lives destroyed.”

To re-phrase the Downing Street memo: “How will the policy ever fix these facts?”

July 20, 2005 9:18 AM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

The people of Iraq are free. A brutal dictator is out of power. A free and independent democratic republic is being built in the middle east. The US is building an axis of democracy that will contain nations like Iran and Syria.

These are all because the US decided to invade Iraq.

Now, what this has to do with the suspension of Ilena Rosentha's organization's corporate charter by the State of California, or Ms. Rosenthal's derelection of her responsibilities to that organization which led to that suspension, I have no idea. What this has to do with the fact that Ms. Rosenthal, despite the fact that she was the responsible corporate officer for that organization, apparently had not a clue that her organization's license had been suspended for the better part of a month, I have no idea. What this has to do with the fact that despite her organization no longer having a valid or legal corporate license to operate, that she is still soliciting for donations, I have no idea.

I'm glad you're all getting a good idea as to just what kind of an operator Ilena Rosenthal is.

July 20, 2005 9:30 AM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Better be careful Andy ... you're making false claims about me ... stating lies as facts ... typical of your behavior for years.

If people choose to donate to me personally ... that's their choice isn't it?

Most of our donations have come in small amounts ... never like CEI and other Front Groups who take in millions from corporations to pay liars like you to Propagandize for them ...

Does your buddy Terry Polevoy who screams for donations at every website have a corporation behind him? No. Yet he begs for donations on every page!

You should know that one of the people that received word yesterday that our corporate status is suspended in California wrote she is sending a check to me personally so that you industry flacks don't prevail on the newsgroup.

July 20, 2005 10:58 AM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

I am? Which statements are incorrect, Ms. Rosenthal?

Let's reprint them, individually:

"Now, what this has to do with the suspension of Ilena Rosentha's organization's corporate charter by the State of California,"

This is a statement of fact - the State of California suspended your organization's corporate charter.

"or Ms. Rosenthal's derelection of her responsibilities to that organization which led to that suspension,"

Of the three members of the Board of Directors of the Humantics Foundation for Women, _YOU_ were the one engaged in the day-to-day operation of the organization. Therefore, it was your responsibility to ensure that the organization was operating within the legal confines of the state in which it was licensed to operate, and if that license was suspended because of the actions (or inactions) of the organiation, that represents a derelection of duty on your part.

So far no lies.

"What this has to do with the fact that Ms. Rosenthal, despite the fact that she was the responsible corporate officer for that organization, apparently had not a clue that her organization's license had been suspended for the better part of a month..."

As I have demonstrated above, you were the responsible corporate officer. In direct response to my question about the reason for the organization's suspension, you said, "I don't know Andyboy ... I just found out today."

According to the California Secretary of State's office in San Diego (where Humantics was supposedly headquartered), that suspension was made official on July 1, 2005. Yesterday was July 19.

Therefore, for the better part of a month, you had no idea that your organization's corporate license had been suspended by the state.

"What this has to do with the fact that despite her organization no longer having a valid or legal corporate license to operate, that she is still soliciting for donations..."

You have no valid or legal corporate license to operate your foundation. Yet you are still soliciting for donations (

Those are facts, not accusations. And, in fact, it's not an accusation to point people to California's statutes which cover charitable organizations (as Humantics used to be, before it was suspended, and what it still purports to be on its website)....

'Nuff said? I think so.

July 20, 2005 1:59 PM

Anonymous Bruce said...

Not being familiar with the history of this argument, I am a bit confused.

Ms. Rose, do you truly oppose "corporate responsibility" as being the type of activity that leads to war in Iraq? I thought most consumer activists like CFA supported Sarbanes-Oxley and other corporate responsibility measures. I know that Common Cause is very proud of their squeeky clean corporate reputation and donor base as they feel they have to set a high standard so that their opponents can not us the "black kettle" arguement.

Similarly, could youe please give me some data on the number and percentage of wokmen in south and central America who have breast implants vs. those in the U.S.? Are those numbers on your web page? Just curious.

July 20, 2005 4:13 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Q. Ms. Rose, do you truly oppose "corporate responsibility" as being the type of activity that leads to war in Iraq?


Not quite sure what you mean ... What I oppose is the illegal and immoral invasion to further the corporations who backed this war for years before the physical attacks ... Read about PNAC at:

As far as the numbers ... I don't know of any definite ones ... nearly 300,000 women received them in the US last year ... and the numbers are growing substantially in Brazil, Argentina and other Latin nations ...

The 'beauty contests' and the newspapers are filled with augmented women ... I was very surprised some months ago while visiting a very 'backwards' area in Nicaragua ... everyone I spoke with there had an opinion on implants ...and many knew women who were seriously considering getting them ... these are simple folks ... and it was a bit shocking how much PR had reached them already.

I fear these women will have nowhere to go for good advice and healing once the problems begin ...

July 20, 2005 5:53 PM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

I'll ask again -

Which of the following statements is incorrect, Ms. Rosenthal?

"Now, what this has to do with the suspension of Ilena Rosentha's organization's corporate charter by the State of California, or Ms. Rosenthal's derelection of her responsibilities to that organization which led to that suspension, I have no idea. What this has to do with the fact that Ms. Rosenthal, despite the fact that she was the responsible corporate officer for that organization, apparently had not a clue that her organization's license had been suspended for the better part of a month, I have no idea. What this has to do with the fact that despite her organization no longer having a valid or legal corporate license to operate, that she is still soliciting for donations, I have no idea."

Furthermore, what Bruce^4 was asking you was in regards to these two statements that you made: "We all get to see what "corporate responsibillity" has done to Iraq..." and "Here's what "corporate responsiblity" that Langer flacks for has created ... he must be so proud...
Death and Casualties in Iraq".

You didn't clarify, nor did you provide the numbers that you should have been able to provide. You've been living in Central and South America for quite some time, supposedly doing advocacy there. How can you possibly be doing any effective advocacy when you can't even answer basic statistical questions regarding what you claim is a problem there?

I think everyone's getting a very clear picture as to just what kind of a person you are, Ms. Rosenthal.

July 21, 2005 9:31 AM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Andy boy ...

You make claims about my residency which as is much of your corporate bought and paid for drivel ... is not only none of your business ... but is quite revealing.

Most concerning, is that YOU -- are a member of the "Rag-tag Posse of Snake-Oil Vigilantes:

I have soundly and utterly defeated two of the plaintiffs suing me from your Team.

Chris Grell, who in my ever so humble opinion, maliciously prosecuted and lost to me ... was, in open court, tongue lashed by the Judge. Why? Because not only had I not 'libeled' him as his lawsuit against me claimed ... but I had never even mentioned his name! I did not even know he existed until he sued me.

Stephen Barrett, head of the Quackwatch Network from your Team, also was soundly defeated in his desperate SLAPP suit against me.

The Appeals Court in California found that there was not even one comment I ever posted about him that was even questionably libelous as his SLAPP suit against me claimed.

They owe scores of thousands of dollars in attorneys and legal fees because of their losses.

The third Plaintiff, Terry Polevoy, also a member of your Rag-tag Team ... is hunting me down and has expressed a frightening obsession, like you and others, with my whereabouts.

I spoke with the woman who Polevoy terrorized several years ago ... he had decided to get her radio program off the air ... and did not stop until he did ... the history of this is here:

Polevoy was parading around Usenet dressed as "Vera Teasdale" posting harassing and defamatory messages against me and others he was suing ... until his stalking disguise was busted.

So Readers and Andy ... I will continue to note your obsession with my whereabouts ... which I choose to change frequently.

I have every reason to believe that with Andy's contacts and his threats against me ... his Team's brutal losses to me in the California courts ... two members of another Team of his going to Costa Rica and hiring Private Investigators to hunt me down and attempt to illegally access my bank accounts ... I will do all I can to protect myself ... my physical being particularly.

Karen Silkwood is but one example of someone who got 'disappeared' when she stood up to the "powers that be."

I don't want to become another.

July 21, 2005 11:49 AM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

July 21, 2005 11:51 AM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

July 21, 2005 11:55 AM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Andy claimed:

>The people of Iraq are free.

At what cost to life, humanity, the reputation of the United States, the antiquities of Iraq, the hundreds of thousands injured and dead ... plus terrorism in the world being at an all time high???????????

How many billions now spent on this War?

Which corporations that funds those who fund him have benefitted?

Andy and Funders must be so proud of such "freedom."

July 21, 2005 11:58 AM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

Freedom isn't free, Ms. Rosenthal. And when you step up and demonstrate the courage to defend the freedom of those who are unable to do so, you make yourself a target.

What you're saying, though, is that the people of Iraq would have been better off clutched in the brutal iron fist of one of this planet's last stalinist holdovers. That somehow the antiquities of the Iraqi people are more valuable to them than their freedom. That though they would have remained slaves to a tyrannical thug, because they were uninjured (because of freedom's fight), it was a better situation.

This is the "Liberty Blog", Ms. Rosenthal. We know that sometimes you have to fight for freedom here.

July 21, 2005 4:03 PM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

I also note that despite your ridiculous fantasies about what conspiracies are being crafted to plot your physical demise (you wanna talk about abject paranoia! After all, _YOU'RE_ the one who contacted _MY_ spouse - truly _creepy_!), you failed, once again, to elaborate on your accusation that I had lied about you.

Also, though you've peddled quite a bit of bafflegarb about the multitude of lawsuits your behavior has brought about, none of that changes the fact THAT YOUR CORPORATE CHARTER WAS SUSPENDED BY THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DUE TO YOUR MANAGEMENT OF THE HUMANTICS FOUNDATION FOR WOMEN!!!!

July 21, 2005 4:06 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

July 21, 2005 4:24 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Busy right now Andy Boy ...

You will be updated over the temporary suspension of the Humantics Foundation ... and thanks for bringing it to my attenton.
I'm quite honoured to know that our temporary suspension is as important to you as the Supreme Court Nominee.

Reminds me of when you were more interested in my opinion of the War than Pope Paul's!

Interesting that you spend so much of your salaried time investigating and posting about me although you have declared publicly that I am an 'ignoramus'!

July 21, 2005 4:39 PM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

"Temporary Suspension"? Well. considering that as of several days ago you didn't even know that your license had been suspended, one wonders just how "temporary" it would be.

And I find it interesting that you'd use that word - "temporary" denotes that you are working to get the suspension lifted. You, yourself, have said that operating without that licsense presents less of a burden for you, so I'm wondering if you've had a change of heart, and if so, why?

Incidentally, Ilena Rosenthal lies when she claims that _I_ brought her organization's suspension to her attention. That distinction belongs to someone else (if she were a legitimate manager of a legitimate organization, she would have found out from the state soon after it happened, not nearly three weeks later from one of her "admirers").

As for my interest, Ms. Rosenthal, had you not continued to attack me during my two month absence from the breast implant newsgroup, I probably wouldn't have noticed at all. And had you not ratcheted up your attacking rhetoric against me after you learned of your organizations _SUSPENSION_ by the state of California, I probably would have let the incident pass without comment.

But you _DIDN'T_ leave me alone (though you had promised a long time ago that you would leave alone anyone who similarly left you alone). You did _RATCHET_ up your rhetoric.

And now you pay the price, again.

I can still discuss the merits and scholarly record of Judge John Roberts just fine while still dealing with your doggerel. I can also discuss other things of importance, like IJ's fight against eminent domain abuse, the upcoming Cream concerts, and the release of one of the most important films celebrating the right to free expression in years.

And while you're spinning away trying to deflect attention away from the things you've said and cannot back up (you haven't fooled any of the readers of _THIS_ blog, by the way),let's remember the context of your statement regarding the Pope.

You were asked about your opinion of the war. You offered the opinion of the Pope as a way of deflecting attention away from a thorough discussion of your opinions. If I had wanted the Pope's opinion, I could have asked any one of a number of people affiliated with the Catholic Church for it. I could have asked friends of mine who had their wedding blessed by the Holy Father himself.

But because we were discussing the war with _YOU_, it was _YOUR_ opinion that was at issue, not the Pope's.

And by the way, Ms. Rosenthal - you came over to MY neighborhood. If you don't like the attention being paid to you, either here or elsewhere, then feel free at any time to stop writing about me. Oh, and while you're making demands about what I write about you here, you might want to consider taking down those lie-filled webpages that are on the website of your now-suspended organization.

Why were you suspended, again, by the way?

July 21, 2005 5:21 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Andy has a very funny definition of "ignore"...

One of his sychophants, Myrl Jeffcoat, signed her Pledge to Andy to "ignore" me for a whole month ...

Instead, she began contacting women by private email spreading libelous statements about me and others on their mutual hate list.

Instead of rebuking Jeffcoat ... Andy took several bows and applauded Jeffcoat's "ignoring" me ... with a new defintion of the word, apparently AndySpeak. The silicone manufacturers on his list couldn't "ignore me" either ... but Andy applauded them anyway, as he gave himself several undeserved kudos and back pats for his farce.

Details here:

I also received word from a Federal Agency that it sppears that Andy Boy contacted while "ignoring" me ... with an absurd complaint against the Humantics Foundation ... a waste of government time and money.

Andy will have to wait until our paperwork is again fully in order ... since he is so interested in the legal status of the Humantics Foundation ... he must be thinking of contributing financially instead of only harassment and defamation. That would be a lovely change!

July 21, 2005 5:37 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Here Andy ... this is your definition of a nearly 100 billion dollar "freedom" you keep taking bows about:

The Link to London
The True, Terrible State of Iraq

July 21, 2005 6:05 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

July 21, 2005 6:42 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Andy Spake:

>about the multitude of lawsuits

No Andy ... there was one lawsuit ... 3 plaintiffs



Polevoy (aka "Vera Teasdale" ...
now in Supreme Court over one comment I reposted ... the rest of his multitude of complaints had no merit.

I recall when you threatened to SLAPP sue me ovet a polite email to your wife ...

You even posted your own address and phone # on Usenet at the time!

July 21, 2005 8:08 PM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

Ilena Rosenthal said, "Andy has a very funny definition of "ignore"... "

No, I don't. My definition of "ignore" is remarkably straightforward: if something is written about me, I don't respond to it. In fact, I'll avoid mentioning the person who is doing the attacking on Usenet entirely, perhaps even avoiding posting to that particular newsgroup.

I didn't say anything in from the 15th of May onward. That's more than two months, now. But in that time, Ilena Rosenthal mentioned me time and time again, mostly in an attacking fashion.

All of those posts went completely ignored.

Now, Ms. Rosenthal can try to take me to task for the actions of others, and can, in fact, mischaracterize what others had actually promised to do. But none of that changes the fact that I have done _EXACTLY_ as I said that I would do, while _SHE_ has not.

Now, if Ms. Rosenthal is free to share the details of yet _ANOTHER_ allegation she has made regarding me (she has made a number in this particular thread of comments, but when pressed has deflected away from providing the details of her claims). Please, Ms. Rosenthal: share with us all the details of my complaint against you with a federal agency. What complaint would that be? What was so absurd?

And as to your statements that you are getting your paperwork in order (this would include, of course, offering up a real street address, as required by California state law, not the PO Box that you claim is the physical location of the Humantics Foundation for Women), you still haven't explained that decision in light of your earlier comments that suggested you'd rather operate _WITHOUT_ a licsense.

Incidentally, are you still soliciting donations on your website for your organization, despite the fact that California has suspended your license? And why _DID_ they suspend that license, again?

Oh, and I'd never give to an organization that had had it's state license suspended. I'll save my money and give it to legitimate organizations that actually accomplish something on behalf of the people and issues they advocate for, as I have done in the past.

July 22, 2005 10:11 AM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Personally, I think those who funded Andy's funders were 'ticked' at me for comments like this:

CEO's scheduled speech at Lehigh dinner raises ire In light of breast
implant lawsuits against Dow Corning, some women say his appearance is

EXCERPT: I am just outraged,'' said Ilena Rosenthal, director of the
Humantics Foundation, a national support group for women who have had
implants. ''To have Dow Corning teach crisis management is like Enron
teaching a course on 401(k)s.''

July 22, 2005 2:26 PM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

...or having Ilena Rosenthal and the Humantics Foundation teach a course on how to be a a responsible corporate non-profit entity in the state of California and not get your corporate license suspended by the state.

Once again, Ms. Rosenthal - why _DID_ California suspend the corporate license of the Humantics Foundation?

Perhaps if you'd been less focused on Dow or Enron's corporate behavior, and more focused on ensuring that Humantics didn't run afould of California's laws, they wouldn't have suspended your organization's corporate license, and you wouldn't look like such a hypocrite for taking potshots at Dow and Enron?

(You keep teeing them up, Ms. Rosenthal, and I'll keep banging 'em down the fairway.)

July 22, 2005 2:46 PM

Anonymous Bruce said...

I'm still a bit confused about how "corporate responsibility" -- NOT "ireeesponsibility or greed" but "responsibility" -- is the cause of Iraq or the reason your corporate paperwork is not "fully in order." If the corporations behind the Iraq war would simply not file proper paperwork would that be better?

Also - this gets me becuase my brother fought in Iraq and may do so again - we have lost fewer soldiers in Iraq than we did in the first hour of the battle for Iwo Jima. While I do not relish one single american death or injury, I do agree that we pay a price for our freedom. As for when we will be out of Iraq, I would note that we are still in Germany nearly 50 years after defeating Hitler and the Nazis. As a Jew, I have a personal tie to the belief that we will "never again" stand by and let a tyrant kill his people because we don't want to risk a war. I think my friends who had family in Rwanda, Sudan and Bosina would agree.

July 22, 2005 2:59 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

July 22, 2005 3:22 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Andy ... the details on why our status was temporarily suspended is on our website ...

Of course ... this "evil" that resorted to a $50 fine (WoW ... must have been really serious) ... is far more egregious (in LangerSpeak) than spending scores of billions of dollars to murder, maim, loot, and create more terrorism than the world has ever known ... while those who pay those who pay Andy to blaaaaaaaag here get richer and richer.

July 22, 2005 3:26 PM

Anonymous Bruce said...

Yet again I am confused.

The Foundation web page states today "Should you wish to donate to the Humantics Foundation so that we can continue our work to raise awarerness to the very real dangers of breast implants, we will update this notice when we can again accept any contributions."

But earlier on this blog you stated, "If people choose to donate to me personally ... that's their choice isn't it?"

So was Mr. Langer right that people should not donate through your web page while your charter is suspended? And if this is the case, shouldn't you disable that link? And if it is another "Langer lie" why do you say on your web page today you'll tell us when you can again accept donations.

Color me confused.

July 22, 2005 3:41 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Bruce ... if you believe there is less terrorism in the world because of this corporate invasion and destruction of Iraq ... now on the verge of Civil War ...

and that the United States' freedoms are in tact ...

and that the US has more respect in the world today ...

or like Andy, that the anti War movement is 'indefensible' ...

you'd probably believe that OJ is still searching for the real killer ...

July 22, 2005 3:42 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

We received notice this week for the first time that the Humantics Foundation's corporate status has been temporarily suspended by the State of California. This is due solely for our failing to respond to a Franchise Tax Board request for information from 2003.

The severity of this failure is demonstrated in the $50 (fifty dollar) fine we were assessed.

We have been reassured that our status will be reinstated once this paper is processed and our check clears.

We regret any inconvenience and thank those that brought this to our attention.

Should you wish to donate to the Humantics Foundation so that we can continue our work to raise awarerness to the very real dangers of breast implants, we will update this notice when we can again accept any contributions.

Still asking for sad...

July 22, 2005 5:39 PM

Blogger T.H.E.Probe said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

July 22, 2005 5:41 PM

Blogger T.H.E.Probe said...

Bruce, do not let Rosenthal know anything about you. Andy is not the only person who has had his wife's privacy stolen by her. Rosenthal is a stalker and handles people to do her evil deeds like Jessi and Jan Drew.

July 22, 2005 5:42 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

"The bad thing of war is, that it makes more evil people than it can take away."

: Immanuel Kant - (1724-1804) German philosopher

July 22, 2005 6:36 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

"There are some whose only reason for inciting war is to use it as a means to exercise their tyranny over their subjects more easily. For in times of peace the authority of the assembly, the dignity of the magistrates, the force of the laws stand in the way to some extent of the ruler doing what he likes. But once war is declared then the whole business of state is subject to the will of a few ... They demand as much money as they like. Why say more?" [Erasmus of Rotterdam 1469-1536, Adages IV.i.1]

July 22, 2005 6:37 PM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

No, initially it was a fine. _NOW_ it's a suspension... for "failing to respond to a Franchise Tax Board request for information from 2003."

And why did you fail to respond to the request for information from 2003? What information did they request?

Moreover, are you going to provide the State of California with a legitimate physical address for the Humantics Foundation for Women, as is required by state law (a law which Humantics will continue to be in violation of if you persist in using an Mailboxes Etc.-type business on your official documents)?

July 22, 2005 8:35 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Susan Schaezler began probing into my life and took away my privacy now for 10 years ...

Mark S Probert ... a fellow Rag-tag Posse Member with Langer began anonymously following me around and harassing and stalking me after all 3 plaintiffs lost to me in 2001.

It smells to me like they are contining their identical activity here ... backing up Andy's futile interrogations.

You guys play with each other ... same corporate Smear Campaign ... Year 11 now.

We're going out and howl at the mooon!

July 22, 2005 10:39 PM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

See, in this last post, Ilena Rosenthal again writes as though she is the center of the universe. With the exception of readers from, the vast majority of the readers of the Liberty Blog have no idea who Mark Probert or Susan Schaezler are (or Myrl Jeffcoat or Coleah Penley-Ayers, etc).

Yet, you write about them as though they are household names.

This is the Liberty Blog, Ms. Rosenthal. It's not, or talk.about.ilena-rosenthals-many-fans or alt.ilena-rosenthal-is-a-kook even.

You might try keeping that in mind. You might also try keeping in mind that you're not fooling anyone here at the Liberty Blog when you fail to substantiate claims you have made about others, or avoid answering questions that are asked of you in response to things that you have written here.

Your organization had it's corporate license suspended because of your failure to act in accordance with California law. What information did the state want that you failed to provide, and why did you fail to provide it?

July 23, 2005 7:26 AM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Andy Boy ... you brought me and this topic and your sick sychophant anonymous shills here ...

People can get a good idea of who your followers are when they follow you here.

You'd have done better to name this the "Lost Liberties Blaaaaaag" as you parrot the government as our liberties fade away.

July 23, 2005 10:03 AM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

So now, not only is Ilena Rosenthal repeating what she's said earlier in threads, she's now repeating what she's said in other threads. You have spent years of your life professionally working to violate the liberties of others (bullying, threatening, advocating to keep others in bondage, etc). So your decrying the loss of rights elsewhere rings hollow.

There are those of us who _HAVE_ spent nearly their entire careers working devotedly to protecting the full bundle of individual rights. What's more, we've accomplished things in that regard.

The contrast is striking.

As to the issue of what brought you here, if you hadn't persisted in attacking me on, despite my continued absence there, I would have let the suspension of the Humantics Foundation by the state of California pass without much or any comment.

But because you refuse to do what you promised a long time ago to do (that is, leave those alone who leave you alone), and instead ratcheted up your rhetoric against me, I decided to let a wide variety of people know that the state of California had done a very _GOOD_ thing and suspended a non-profit of dubious merit for running afoul of the law.

And I note that you continue to deflect the questions regarding what information the state wanted from your organization and why you failed to provide it.

July 23, 2005 12:13 PM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

Now I will repeat myself, because I don't think this point ought to be missed....

I find it mildly ironic, but tremendously telling, that you would admire a movie celebrating Che Guevara, who was, in reality, a brutal Stalinist thug (not too much unlike Saddam Hussein, in fact, another power-hungry tyrant who you would have seen kept in power). Of course, Che was much better looking than Hussein and died young, so there's a certain romantic mystique there.

But it's incredibly ironic that you would put on this "shuck and jive" show decrying lost liberties while praising a movie that romanticized an enemy of those self-same liberties (especially the right to hold and enjoy private property).

July 23, 2005 12:22 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

You must not have seen this exquisite movie Andy Boy ...

Speaking of things you know nothing about is one of your specialties. Drawing wrong conclusions is another.

"Motorcycle Diaries" deals with Ernesto aka Che's adventues in traversing God's Earth ... called "South America" when he was but turning 24.

The scenery is estupenous!

The faces of the people deliclioso.

It shows Ernesto's beauty .. his gentleness ...his humanity ... his budding awarenesses to the inequities in this world ... his tenderness in working with lepers ... his tenacity ... his grace.

No quality that you share Andy Langer.

You are a bought and paid for Corporate Lobbyist ... a Chicken Hawk ... who supports others going to do the filthy killing and maiming you cheerlead for.

I know what it is like to go afoul of the 'powers that be' and their corporate agenda ... I know what it is to be targeted in a Smear Campaign ...

Why else would you spend 5 years of your life harassing and inuslting and belittling me ... and then claiming I'm an 'ignoramus.' I know your laundry list of my crimes and sins ... but they bear no resemblance to who I am and what I care about.

July 23, 2005 4:16 PM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

Yes, I seem to recall a few movies which portrayed a beautiful youth of a young German painter - an artist with a vision for correcting the inequities that his people had suffered at the hands of what he perceived to be a dangerous, powerful and monied elite. Much like the portrayal of Che in the "Motorcycle Diaries".

But no amount of romantic whitewashery could sweep away the vicious crimes of this brutal tyrant, either. _HIS_ name? Hitler.

Romanticizing the youth of vicious and iron-fisted madmen to be doesn't change the men that they became. It only serves to cloud the condemnation which they so richly deserve.

But thank you for demonstrating that your committment to the protection of individual rights, including property rights, that you have claimed to show here, is nothing more than a cheap piece of vaudeville illusionism. Once we peel back that curtain, we see that your longtime efforts to denigrate the rights of others further manifest themselves in your admiration for some of this planet's greatest oppressors of individuals.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara was no hero. He was no romantic visionary to be applauded. He was a murderous thug who had a brutal vision of the best way to reorder society in his own image.

This is the antithesis of freedom, and the Liberty Blog stands foursquare against it.

July 23, 2005 9:21 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Your bigotry and tiny world perception is apparent, Chickenhawk Andy.

We've seen who are YOUR heroes ... I pray to God that God's Majestic Earth can survive them.

The Motorcycle Diaries award nominees have reached an outstanding number. With the Motorcycle Diaries award nominees being in such categories as "Best Picture" in the British Academy Awards, "Best Foreign Language Film" in the Golden Globes, and "Best Foreign Film" by the National Board of Review, it is no wonder why the film is a fascination among many.

July 23, 2005 10:00 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

*"Ernesto "Che" Guevara was no hero."


Some believe that Guevara, called "the most complete human being of our age" by the French philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre, may yet prove to be the most important thinker and activist in Latin America since Simón Bolívar, leader of the South American independence movement and hero to subsequent generations of nationalists throughout Latin America.

July 23, 2005 10:37 PM

Blogger Cajun Tiger said...

Wow...this is one seriously disturbed individual!!!

If Japan and Germany are any example of the "corporate" war we wage, then if I were an Iraqi I'd start a car company soon!!! Move over Toyota and Mercedes.

Oh and how long did it take to have elections in Germany? I believe if memory serves me it was over 5 years...glad this democracy in Iraq is an utter failure.

Also there is not one life lost in Iraq that was lost in vain, including my cousin's. They have all fought for the freedom of an oppressed people and a safer world and because of that they deserve our highest praise not ridiculous rhetoric from the likes of you Ms. Rosenthal. I heard there is an opening for Human Shields in Baghdad and Falujah, maybe you should apply.

July 26, 2005 12:04 AM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

LOL ... CT or whoever hides in shame behind your mask ...

Who is the 'disturbed individual'??

Nelson Mandela?

Or perhaps like an AndyClone ... you're pointing your finger at me.

I found this article very revealing about the Bush that bought & paid for Andy advertises for:

Bush's Soviet State
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Friday 22 July 2005

It's funny in an awful sort of way. The defining events of the last fifty years all centered around the Cold War and the eventual demise of the Soviet system. Toward the end of the Soviet regime, their government was often forced to grossly overstate the size of grain harvests or the preparedness of their military in order to maintain an illusion of strength and order. In other words, intelligence and facts were fixed around the policy. In essence, fixing the facts became the policy.

Self-deception was piled upon self-deception. Rather than address the systemic problems within the nation, the Soviet regime chose instead to massage the illusions until the problems became too huge to overcome. Pretending everything was fine became the chosen course of action, and the state's ability to manufacture a pleasing reality became a perfect circle of inaction and delusion. By the time the tanks rolled and the Wall fell, the deal had already gone down.

Sound familiar?

There has been a lot of noise lately in the news media about the outing of CIA agent Valerie Plame, and whether Bush advisor Karl Rove was the button-man who brought her down. Press coverage of this issue has been unexpectedly tenacious. White House spokesman Scott McClellan has been leaving his podium after press conferences lately with fresh bite marks all over his ankles and legs. The intensity of the pursuit on this issue has a lot to do with Times reporter Judy Miller. Like her, hate her, respect her or disdain her, but one thing is clear: The White House press corps is bird-dogging this story with alacrity because one of their own has wound up in the bucket because of it.

Yet even with all the coverage - The Time cover, the Newsweek cover, the growling at the press conferences, the intensity of media attention that has not even been deflected by a Supreme Court nomination - the press and far too many people seem to be letting the larger issue slide by. Reporters, columnists and talking heads chew over minute permutations of the story like whether Rove actually said Plame's name, or whether he used her maiden name, or whether he "knowingly" did any of this. The trees are certainly interesting, but the forest deserves a lot more attention.

In short, George W. Bush and his administration are pursuing a course of determined unreality that mirrors the delusional fantasies that ultimately consigned the Soviet Union to the dustbin of history. This Rove-Plame thing is but one small aspect of the main.

Valerie Plame's career as a covert CIA operative was spent keeping weapons of mass destruction out of the hands of terrorists. Her career was destroyed by the White House because her husband, Joseph Wilson, had the gall to publicly contradict Bush and his people regarding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It was so important for the Bush administration to maintain the fiction that Iraq possessed these weapons that they were willing to torpedo a vital intelligence network set up to protect us all. That fiction was more important than the truth.

It seems clear that Rove was central to this action, regardless of all the arguments over the definition of "is." It is likewise becoming clear that Lewis Libby, chief of staff to Vice President Cheney, was also in on this action. However, focusing only on which laws these two may have violated in wrecking Plame's ability to do her job does not encompass the totality of the issue. Valerie Plame is not a central character in all this, but only another casualty.

George W. Bush and his people spent months telling the American public that Iraq was a direct threat to our security. They invaded based upon false pretenses. They maintain the fiction that the war was necessary when it has become manifestly clear that it was not. They maintain the fiction that freedom has been brought to Iraq when it has become manifestly clear that it has not. Perhaps worst of all, they maintain the fiction that the United States and the world are safer because of the invasion. Recent events in London rip this fantasy to shreds, and never mind the reports from the French news media that the London explosives may have been made from materials stolen from the unsecured Al-Qaqaa facility in Iraq.

A recent article from the Associated Press titled "Experts Fear Endless Terror War" noted, "An Associated Press survey of longtime students of international terrorism finds them ever more convinced, in the aftermath of London's bloody Thursday, that the world has entered a long siege in a new kind of war. They believe that al-Qaida is mutating into a global insurgency, a possible prototype for other 21st-century movements, technologically astute, almost leaderless. And the way out is far from clear. In fact, says Michael Scheuer, the ex-CIA analyst, rather than move toward solutions, the United States took a big step backward by invading Iraq."

The article continues, "Scheuer, who headed the CIA's bin Laden unit for nine years, sees a different way out - through US foreign policy. He said he resigned last November to expose the US leadership's 'willful blindness' to what needs to be done: withdraw the US military from the Mideast, end 'unqualified support' for Israel, sever close ties to Arab oil-state 'tyrannies.'"

Willful blindness is an appropriate phrase. It captures not only the fact that we are manufacturing threats to our security every day we remain in Iraq, but the fact that virtually everything associated with Bush administration policy depends on self-delusion and the manipulation of data to fulfill political desires. Even the most fundamental underpinnings of conservative political philosophy have been ground up in the gears of this grand fantasy.

Truth no longer matters. Ethics no longer matter. Facts are there for the twisting. Decades-old conservative ideals regarding the budget and the size of the Federal government have been thrown under the bus because they are no longer convenient, and get in the way of the manufacture of reality. Soviet self-delusion led that nation into Afghanistan and disaster. The Bush administration’s self-delusion has led us into Iraq. Res ipsa loquitor.

The parallel between this Bush administration and the old, failed Soviet regime can be taken one step further. One of the main reasons the Soviet government was able to stagger on for years making up facts out of whole cloth was that the leaders of that regime were accountable to no one. The Politburo said it, and so it must be true, and if it wasn't true, there was no authority or check to their power that could blow a whistle, throw a flag or demand an investigation. The old Soviet government lived in a bubble, free from the fear that they might be called to the carpet for lying, getting a lot of people killed and putting the State in mortal danger.

Sound familiar? Bush and his people have managed to walk through the raindrops since 2001, managed to pull off more than a few impeachable crimes, for no other reason than that they are accountable to no one in government ... or, more properly, no one in government who has the power to call them to account has done so. Congress is run by Bush allies, the Justice Department is run by his longest-standing hatchet man, and all of them prefer to maintain the pleasant fictions over any attempt to fix what has gone so drastically and demonstrably wrong.

We watched the Soviets smash themselves to pieces because they refused to deal with what ailed them, because lies made life easier on the powerful, because actually attempting to address a problem might expose the powerful to censure or even removal, because no one had the power to stop them.

It is happening again, right before our eyes.

July 26, 2005 9:48 AM

Blogger Cajun Tiger said... Rose must not only drink the Kool-Aid, she must own stock in the company...wait...maybe not...owning stock in companies is what us scary capitalists do.

Well I guess comparing Bush to Hitler has grown old, so they are switching to the Soviet Union. However one thing remains the same...they are hoping America fails.

I won't even touch the Plame/Wilson junk because anyone with a brain knows that everything Wilson has said and done has been completely discredited.

The only reason the looney left continues harping on this issue is they have no agenda and are grasping at any straw available, which is also why they have lost the last 3 election cycles and will continue to lose if they continue the same stupidity.

Oh Ms. difference you fail to notice between America and the FORMER Soviet Union...we have elections and President Bush was RE-ELECTED with the biggest election total in history!!! Thank God!!!

July 26, 2005 8:49 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

For Andy & His Sock Puppet:

Are Stupid White Men Really Stupid?

By Dom Stasi

We must wake up and regain our country from the criminals, fools, and traitors who've assumed it.

July 27, 2005 9:07 PM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

Why would I possibly need a sock puppet on my own blog, especially when you consider that I've never used sock puppets anywhere else, and have, in fact, been steadfastly opposed to the practice?

CT's got his own blog. Perhaps you ought to read it.

You just can't seem to fathom that you're playing on my field here, and that friends of mine might be playing here as well.

July 28, 2005 11:04 AM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

CT's blog link:

It's fairly clear that CT is his own person and not some sock puppet of my creation.

July 28, 2005 11:06 AM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

I have clear evidence to the contrary to Langer's denial of ever using Sock Puppets ...

As a ratbagger ... he will deny it regardless of the clear evidence linking him.

No matter ... his 'commanding descent' is well on its way!

July 28, 2005 12:23 PM

Blogger Andrew Langer said...

Yeah, um, what was the information you failed to file with the state of California that led to your organization's suspension again? Oh, and remind us all... why did you fail to file that information?

July 28, 2005 2:42 PM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...


July 28, 2005 11:13 PM

Anonymous SheKnowsWho said...

Rosenthal uses 'outing' like the current asdministration to discredit her critics. Thus, she is deservedly called

KARLa ROVEnthal.

July 29, 2005 9:24 AM

Blogger Ilena Rose said...

Again... Langer's ratbags buddy, disbarred attorney Mark S Probert appears in disguise ...

They both began their usenet attacks on me after Barrett/Grell/Polevoy lost their SLAPP suit to me in Superior Court:

To meet Langer & Probert together, backing the dubious and oft discredited 'quackwatch' / healthfraud Smear Campaigns ...

More on Probert's disbarrment:

July 29, 2005 3:21 PM

Anonymous SheKnowsWho said...

Rosenthal posts right on que.

So predictable.

August 01, 2005 11:33 AM


Post a Comment

<< Home